Take it easy Rev. Hicks.

Thanks for the convo!

Bye the way,
my name is Stefon. I provided my name earlier so that you wouldn't be talking to a screen name.

Good luck (be blessed) with your ministries, and I pray that God helps you find what you are looking for.

pr8sm!

Rev: "I feel that for one to say that original sin does not exist is one way to deny Jesus' Deity...In so saying , I mean this:"


Rev. Hicks, Adam is the original sin for Us (humanity), I don't think we disagree there. We both believe as the bible describes that sin entered the WORLD through one man and therefore we are ALL subject to the same punishment of that sin, but we are only guilty for our own sin.

This is the point at which we dissagree. I do believe that Jesus came for a reason.

Eph 1:4 "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-- 6 o the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 n him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding."

God knew that we would need to be reconciled to him through Jesus, because of our sin. Jesus had to come since the first man sin and brought sin into the world.

Disciple:

Stefon

Rev: "Original sin is a doctrine that explains why evil exists in a world created by a good and omnipotent God."

I understand that.

Rev: "Today we might understand this to mean that, while we are not guilty of any other's sins, we do "suffer the negatives consequences" of each other's sins, beginning with the immoral environment created by our first parents if you will."

I agree.


Rev: "No one actually enters the world a sinner, but we all enter into a sinful world as I said. Original sin is a way of saying that, right from the outset, we all become infected, are "made sinners," by a world diseased or covered with sin."


This is the point I where I still agree with you, but I don't think that this is the same definition that is "Commonly" associated with the term "Original Sin". So far this I agree with, but not with the other Definition (we are born sinners) I have ran across.

REV: "We are "guilty" by association, with Adam. The shame of any disgraced father has been passed on to his children: "condemnation came upon all."

Now this seems to contradict some of what you said earlier.
Sin entered the world through Adam, but we are not born in sin. On the contrary your saying that the "Guilt" of the Father rest on the children to bear.

This doesn't seem to agree with certain passages I've read. We are "Guilty" Because of Our Sin, when We Sin. I just read this today actually:

John 15:22 "If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin. 23 He who hates me hates my Father as well. 24 If I had not done among them what no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. But now they have seen these miracles, and yet they have hated both me and my Father."

God does not Hold a person Guilty by default. The person that doesn't believe stand condemn already (John 3:17-19). It's not until a person Sin against God's spoken word (for them) that they are Guilty.
Guilty of Jesus' blood.

Ezekiel 18:17 "He will not die for his father's sin; he will surely live. 18 But his father will die for his own sin, because he practiced extortion, robbed his brother and did what was wrong among his people.
19 "Yet you ask, 'Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?' Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. 20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him."

The only guilt we carry is that of the Cross. I don't believe that takes place until we sin against God.

Infants are not Held Guilty for Sin Just because they are born, but they will sin. It's inevitable.

Rev: "Baptism is an outward formal sign of our decision to incorporate us into "life with Christ" (Eph 2:5), into Christ’s body, the Church (1 Cor 1:12-27). We choose Christ as our Savior."

This is one of the constant things that most Evangelicals say that doesn't add up with scripture for me.
Where does it say or even hint in the bible that a person's Spiritual Baptism is an Outward sign? Or a "Work"? Or "It's for others to know that your are already saved"?

Or that it doesn't save you?

Geeeesh! You posted allot:)

That's allot of meat to chew on. I really appreciate it.
Rev. wrote:"I will go into this in more detail as far as I believe, if you are open to a conversation for fellowship, otherwise it will just be an "argument of interpretation" of which I am not interested...."

I agree. I think we should be able to state our faith based on scripture and not argue. That doesn't mean we will always agree, but we can at least learn why the other believes what they believe.

Thanks in advance for having this conversation with me.

Well, I guess one thing at a time:

Rev: "Please explain to me what it is exactly that you believe that will obtain God's forgiveness?"

What I believe is needed for salvation is the following (not in part, but as a whole):

1. HEAR the word of truth (James 1:19-27, John 8:31-32, Mark 16:15-20, Matt 28:18-20)

2. BELIEVE the word of truth (John 8:31-32, John 12:37-50, Heb 11:1-6, John 3:all)

3. REPENT based on the truth (Luke 13:5, 2 Cor 7:8-13, Acts 2:38-40, Luke 3:3)

4. CONFESS Jesus is Lord (Phillip 2:11, Rom 10:9)

5. BAPTIZED base on the truth (scripture reference all of the above)


That's it. It's just that simple.

I don't believe in the "Sinners Prayer" as "Accepting" Christ is unusually associated with.

What do you think?

Disciple:
Stefon Lowman

"Teach me and I'll believe, believe and I'll teach"

- In His grip.

Rev. Hicks,

Thanks for your reply.

I understand you point on salvation, although I don't believe in "Accepting" Jesus as our Lord and saviour as a sole mean of obtain God's forgiveness, I do understand that a "gap" must be connect between us and God.

If I'm understanding you correctly, we are born spiritually separated from God.

Now I thought that it is Sin that Separates us spiritually from God, not being born into a sinful world.

Is it not true that the Soul who sins is that soul that dies?

Isaiah 59:1-5 (NIV)
"1 Surely the arm of the LORD is not too short to save,
nor his ear too dull to hear.
2 But your iniquities have separated
you from your God;
your sins have hidden his face from you,
so that he will not hear.
3 For your hands are stained with blood,
your fingers with guilt.
Your lips have spoken lies,
and your tongue mutters wicked things."

Is it not until we commit sin that we have sinned???

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